2010-09-15 DRC Final MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
September 15, 2010
Committee Members Present:
Committee Members Absent:
Adrienne Gladson
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Bill Cathcart
Tim McCormack
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Doris Nguyen, Associate Planner
Dan Ryan, Historic Preservation Planner
Sonal Thakur, Assistant Planner
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
Vice Chair Gladson opened the Administrative Session at 5:18 p.m.
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated there might be a quorum issue on DRC items
Nos. 3 and 5; Chair Cathcart was absent and Committee Member McCormack might not be in
attendance and for both the items there would need to be three members present to hear the item
and Committee Member Wheeler would be recused from those items. Committee Member
McCormack communicated that he might be arriving late. She advised that the Agenda be heard
out of order with Haven Gastropub and Henry's Grill being moved to the bottom of the Agenda.
If Committee Member McCormack was not able to attend the meeting those two items would be
held over to the next DRC Meeting on October 6, 2010. Ms. Aranda Roseberry made an
announcement regarding parking and she would remind applicants and those arriving later that
there was no parking in the main lot due to the set up of the City's Health Fair.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he assumed the Committee Members could not attend and
take part in the free lunch being offered through the open house invitation he was holding.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated they could attend, but not eat, unless they paid for their meal. The
project appeared to have been completed nicely and it would be worth the tour.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it was the big apartment project that they had reviewed about
a year ago. It was on Lemon just south of Katella.
Vice Chair Gladson stated she supposed they could go later after lunch was served. She would
be interested in seeing the project.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated in the next few meetings there would be items to discuss and she
`~ would wait until those were presented in an Agenda; they were an FYI and some basic feedback
that they would discuss during the Administrative Session and at those meetings they could
begin the Administrative Session at 5:00 p.m.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 2 of 12
Committee Member Wheeler suggested they not have those items presented at a meeting where
there would be more than one set of minutes to approve.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated they could attempt to do that.
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart, Tim McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:23 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Committee Members Bill Cathcart and Tim McCormack were absent.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
There were none.
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action
CONSENT ITEMS:
(1) Approval of Minutes: None
-Vice Chair Gladson, addressing the applicants and public present, stated there were three
Committee Members in attendance and there were two members absent and one member might
be in attendance by 6:00 p.m. She explained that the Agenda would be heard out of order as
there were two items that would require a Committee Member to be recused from the
}may presentation of those items and the possibility of a lack of a quorum of Committee Members to
hear the items.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 3 of 12
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items:
(2) DRC No. 4431-09 -WELLS CARGO SELF STORAGE-SIGN PROGRAM
• A proposal for two freestanding monuments and one wall sign at an existing self storage
facility.
• 224 N. McPherson Road
• Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714-744-7223, do uyen(a,ci oforang_e.org
• Item Continued from August 4, 2010 DRC Meeting
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Committee Member Wheeler suggested that the item be approved without discussion.
Vice Chair Gladson stated she would agree with that.
Committee Member Woollett concurred with that suggestion.
Vice Chair Gladson asked the applicant, Bill Henigsman, if he had any objection to having the
item approved as written?
Mr. Henigsman, address on file, stated he had no objection.
Public Comment
None.
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC No. 4431-09, Wells Cargo Self
Storage Sign Program, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart, Tim McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 4 of 12
(3) DRC No. 4445-09 -HAVEN GASTROPUB RESTAURANT
• A proposal to construct a new outdoor patio dining area on the Glassell Street elevation,
install railing, wood entry door, heaters, and external walk-in cooler.
• 190 S. Glassell Street, Units C & D, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, drvan~,cityoforan eg_.org
• Item Continued from August 18, 2010 DRC Meeting
• DRC Action: Final Determination
DRC No. 4445-09, Haven Gastropub Restaurant, was continued to a date certain of October 6,
2010 due to a lack of a quorum.
~,
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 5 of 12
(4) DRC No. 4457-09 -SPRINT WIRELESS FACILITY
• A proposal to replace six of the existing panel antennas on the highest arm with three
panel antennas and three microwave dishes. One equipment cabinet would be
constructed inside the existing wrought iron fence equipment enclosure and one GPS
antenna would be attached to the outside of the new equipment cabinet.
• 3335 E. Chapman Avenue
• Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714-744-7223, do ug~yen(cr~,cit oy forange.or~
• Item Continued from June 16, 2010 DRC Meeting
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Associate Planner, Doris Nguyen, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Celly Adamo, address on file, stated she understood that the direction at the last DRC
Meeting was to place the microwave antennae in the center, however, they had two panel
antennas and one microwave. She had proposed that to Sprint. They were able to move the
microwave on the antennae facing south, but in order to not interfere with the azimuths, they
were unable to move the microwave beyond the sectors.
Public Comment
None.
Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee for discussion and stated that she had
been on vacation when the item was initially presented; however, she had reviewed the meeting
minutes and was up to speed on the item.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he trusted the applicant had done everything they could to
have the antennae arrangement appear more symmetrical and assumed there was not much more
that could be done. He was a bit concerned that the plan view drawing had not accurately
represented the array.
Ms. Adamo stated it was a bit difficult to represent that array in a drawing; it was different from
what they generally had.
Committee Member Wheeler stated in comparing the photograph where the ends of the arms
were separated appeared to be almost the same length, but in comparison to the drawing on page
A2 the ends of those arms were almost touching. It was a very different appearance and he had
voiced his concern at the previous meeting.
Ms. Adamo stated she had spoken with the A & E personnel and they could make it appear
shorter, but as it was more or less a curve they needed to depict it in the manner it was presented.
~,~,ar.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he was questioning why the drawing had not matche w at
was there?
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 6 of 12
Ms. Adamo stated she could consult the A & E personnel to re-work the drawing to be more
accurate.
Committee Member Wheeler and Committee Member Woollett discussed the discrepancy in the
drawing.
Ms. Adamo stated she apologized that the discrepancy had not been corrected; she ensured that it
would be addressed.
Committee Member Woollett asked Staff if the discrepancy presented an issue for them?
Ms. Nguyen stated it would not as they would be looking at the placement of the panel antennas.
Committee Member Wheeler stated there was another minor point on sheet A3 which was noted
as the east elevation and it was actually the north elevation.
Ms. Adamo stated she had realized that and had noted it was the north elevation. She had
reviewed how they might be able to center the microwave, other than adding a full antennae, and
that might not even be a better solution for the site. There was a restriction on how far the
antennas could be moved.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve DRC No. 4457-09, Sprint Wireless
Facility, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the additional
conditions:
1. That the plan view reflect the actual proportion of the antennae.
2. To change the east elevation to read north elevation on the plans.
Vice Chair Gladson stated she concurred that it was not the prettiest site, but she was generally
okay with the proposal.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart, Tim McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 7 of 12
New Agenda Items:
(5) DRC No. 4452-09 -HENRY'S GRILL-SIGNS & AC SCREENING
• A proposal for a new sign program and screening of roof-top equipment for a new
restaurant.
• 149 N. Glassell Street, Plaza Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714-744-7224, drvanna,cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
DRC No. 4452-09, Henry's Grill-Signs & AC Screening, was continued due to a lack of a
quorum.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 8 of 12
(6) DRC No. 4497-10 -ORANGE GATEWAY-SIGN PROGRAM
• A proposal to establish a sign program for the new Orange Gateway commercial center.
The commercial center consists of two buildings: astand-alone Jack in the Box restaurant
with drive thru, and amulti-tenant commercial building. The proposed signage includes
wall, monument, and directional signs.
• 3050-3070 West Chapman Avenue
• Staff Contact: Sonal Thakur, 714-744-7239, sthakur~,cityoforan~e.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Assistant Planner, Sonal Thakur, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report
Applicant, Bill Henigsman, address on file, stated the wall signs were pretty cut and dry. They
would be using channel letters and the intent was to dictate what would be allowed for new
tenants. There would be a "one sign per elevation" limit. End cap tenants would be allowed one
additional sign on the side; there would not be any cabinet signs allowed. He was not certain
how many tenants would be in the center and he should have a better idea once construction was
complete. The pylon sign was designed around the building and to utilize the materials that were
used by the contractor. The material boards were used to match colors and shapes. They
brought architectural components from the building to the signs.
Ms. Thakur stated on pages 35 and 36 of the Sign Program there were exhibits that showed four
and five tenants and what their sign scenario would look like; there had not been specific fonts or
colors noted as they wanted to wait until more tenants came in.
Public Comment
None.
Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee for discussion.
Committee Member Woollett stated the basic problem he had was that he had not remembered
what the building had looked like.
Ms. Thakur stated she would take a minute and retrieve a building drawing. She returned and
presented a drawing to the Committee Members.
The Committee Members reviewed the drawings and materials.
Committee Member Woollett asked how long had the applicant thought the red color of the
building would last?
Committee Member Wheeler stated they would need to count on the building owner to paint it
~°~~ when it was necessary. It would not fade as quickly as the blue color of the Best Buy building.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 9 of 12
'° ' Committee Member Wheeler stated on the first page of the Staff Report he found it confusing as
it read: the maximum letter height of 30", but no less than 24" when one line of copy was
proposed and two lines would have a maximum letter height of 36". He suggested that instead of
stating letter height it could read sign height; as 36" would be for the two rows of lettering and
the total maximum height would be 36". It would be less confusing.
Mr. Henigsman stated he agreed as they were limiting letter height.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on page 3, he was always of the opinion when preparing
drawing packets to state something once in the package and to refer back to it. On the design
guidelines, line 2, it read signs shall be fabricated from .063 aluminum; however, all through the
sign program it read .050 aluminum.
Mr. Henigsman stated it was .063.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on line 1 of the design guidelines to change the word "in"
with the word "at". He suggested on future proposals when referring to neon or LED to consider
adding a phrase to allow future technology that was UL approved. On page 4, under tenant
specifications, line one, correct the word "tent" to read."tenant". On the same page at the bottom
where it read "pad tenant shall be allowed two internally illuminated menu board", to add an "s"
so it would read "boards". On page 6 under miscellaneous requirements, line 2, it should read
"12 inch" not "12 inched." He suggested for future submittals to allow restaurant menus to be
displayed tastefully outside of the restaurant.
Ms. Thakur stated that was covered in window signage.
Vice Chair Gladson stated on page 3, regarding the prohibited signs, the only place a cabinet sign
was being used would be for a major tenant which was Jack in the Box.
Mr. Henigsman stated it could be changed to read "prohibited signs for multi-tenant building and
not major tenant building."
Ms. Thakur stated that could be noted specifically on Item No. 1.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on pages 16, 17, 18, and 19, the aluminum thickness needed
to be changed to .063; on page 27, to take out the new faces notation; and on page 31, on the
design, it showed a corrugated steel backing but the drawings showed a sinusoidal curve to it and
in comparing it to page 33 for the Gateway Center Sign it was square corrugation.
Mr. Henigsman stated on page 21 and referring to the top of the building, they would be using
the corrugated metal that was shown on that page. When referring to the backing of the hours of
operation sign, he apologized as he was not familiar with the material that Jack in the Box used
for a backer. It could be a standard corrugated metal that was more of a wave. That had not
reflection on what was noted on page 33 as it was more of a square product.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested that the same material be used for the back of the menu
board sign.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 10 of 12
~" Mr. Henigsman stated he could not speak on behalf of the Jack in the Box sign fabricator and as
to why they used that specific material. It might be a standard part of their sign package. He had
seen the same material in other Jack in the Box locations. The corrugated metal that they were
proposing for the top of the building was rather thick and they might not be able to use the same
material in the Jack in the Box sign as it would make the sign protrude further from the building.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he would just leave it as a suggestion and the applicant could
pursue that change if appropriate. On pages 35 and 36 he suggested to label the 5-tenant version
on page 35 and the 4-tenant version on page 36.
Vice Chair Gladson stated the nice thing about that was the program could flex either way over
time.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on page 37 he questioned the note that the monument sign
was to be determined.
Mr. Henigsman stated there had been a thought at one point that there would be two pylon signs
and a monument sign. He could remove that notation.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he found it confusing that the same numbering system was
used for the different signs with the only difference being the color of the square and it was a bit
difficult to tell which was which.
Vice Chair Gladson stated the main pylon was taking on the character of the main building and
she suggested on the fast food restaurants when all the little menu boards and directional things
were done they generally were just stuck on a pole. She suggested that the base be wrapped to
finish the edges off. Particularly the menu board and it would be a nice element to add.
Mr. Henigsman stated that could be done. He asked if she would want to see the whole length be
covered?
Vice Chair Gladson stated she would want to see the entire length and to match the building base
and material.
Committee Member Wheeler stated a full extension would appear nicer and he would not wish to
condition that, but add that as a suggestion.
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC No. 4497-10, Orange Gateway
Sign Program, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report and to include the
additional editorial comments that were made during the item's discussion.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart, Tim McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 11 of 12
RE: Item 3 - DRC No. 4445-09, Haven Gastrouub Restaurant, Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated
she had taken another look at the Conflict of Interest Map and wanted to get confirmation from
the Haven applicant that their address was 190 S. Glassell. She stated Committee Member
Wheeler would not need to recuse himself from the item's presentation as the conflict of interest
line ended a few parcels up from the applicant's address.
Committee Member Wheeler stated although the building was not within the 500' conflict area,
the property line and parking line fell within the conflict area.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry reviewed the maps. The Committee Members reviewed and discussed
the property lines. Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated she would check her zoning map and also check
to see if Committee Member McCormack had called.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry, upon her return, stated she had not received a call from Committee
Member McCormack; and in regard to the conflict maps it was a matter of interpretation.
Vice Chair Gladson stated items No. 3 and No. 5 would be continued to a date certain of October
6, 2010.
.,,.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2010
Page 12 of 12
ADJOURNMENT:
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled Design
Review Meeting on Wednesday, October 6, 2010.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart, Tim McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
Meeting adjourned at 6:17 p.m.