2010-05-19 DRC Final MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
May 19, 2010
Committee Members Present: Bill Cathcart
Adrienne Gladson
Tim McCormack
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: None
Staff in Attendance: Dan Ryan, Historic Preservation Planner
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
Chair Cathcart opened the Administrative Session with a review of the Agenda.
Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, stated there were no changes to the Agenda. He stated
he was working on an outline for the new Design Standards and working on collecting really
good graphic examples. He had put together a list of illustrations they might need for the future.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if that was for Old Towne?
Mr. Ryan stated it was the Design Standards for Old Towne and it might encompass more than
Old Towne. He was beginning the process and it was exciting. His goal was to end up with a
document that was workable and took as much gray area away; to be able to approve more things
over the counter with defined standards. There could be separate handout sheets for applicants
for those items that always came up. It would be a working document that had a lot of good
information, illustrations, and photography; it would also combine the Old Towne Design
Standards and the Secretary of the Interior's Standards. It would make all their jobs easier and it
would be a document that illustrated what was required and he wanted to stress in the
introduction of the document that, although someone could construct to the minimum standard,
the City was looking for high quality projects overall. He would want to have some type of
pointing system; he had seen many projects that just met the minimum all over and there could
be one terrible item and the collection of items would not work. He felt it should be the major
part of the document that set the tone, the standard, and a direction of what they wanted.
Committee Member Woollett stated his younger brother was a planner and one of the frustrations
he had was that everyone went for the minimum. Everybody designed to the minimum; how
were they able to reject something if it met the minimum?
Mr. Ryan stated there had been some very successful challenges in a workable way. Sometimes
applicants thought that they could slide on one part of the project and he had seen projects where
the overall project had not had the level of quality that was expected.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
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Committee Member McCormack stated he would not want to have the same effort as in the past,
it had to be different, and how could it be different and how could that be defined?
Mr. Ryan stated he believed by having good examples. They all had seen excellent work and
there were people who spent a great deal of time and those were great projects; having the ability
to include all of those examples in order for applicants to see the expectation. When the Design
Collaborative just started there was a very detailed drawing of one street. The "design bar" was
raised and everyone wanted to do the same thing. If the expectation was high and there were
examples of what not to do there would be a gauge to measure the projects by. He was spending
the time to go in that direction. As the process continued he would keep the DRC informed.
Committee Member Woollett asked what the process for the document was?
Mr. Ryan stated the process he saw was to look at what they wanted to keep, the areas that would
be changed and having a residential section gave the document a lot of strength, however, they
had never touched on the industrial areas and in some other places there was information
included but not in-depth. He wanted to review the structure of the document and look at the
graphic design level in order for the entire document to have an illustrative sense. He would
want the document type face to be readable and include photos and graphics.
Committee Member McCormack stated he would want to see a green element of design added.
Mr. Ryan stated that English design documents were that way and they were phenomenal.
Committee Member McCormack stated that was the flavor he spoke of; he was not stating that
he would want it to be over-seasoned with onions so it would be distasteful. To add a little zest,
a little flavor in the document.
Mr. Ryan stated there was a building on West Palmyra and the builder took off a leading barge
board that was 2' x 8', and the back barge was smaller than the front one in length. He had taken
the front ones off and threw them in the trash. He had asked the applicant why had he not used
those for the back barge as there would not be a need to buy new materials? They then had to
find full dimensional lumber.
Committee Member McCormack stated it would be re-use.
Mr. Ryan stated it was a more friendly word.
Chair Cathcart stated he hated the word "sustainability"; with landscape, designers would design
things to die.
Committee Member Gladson stated the reason why sustainable sounded better was that it got
them off the whole issue of global warming which would be fraught with all other views.
Mr. Ryan stated he just wanted to give them an overview.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
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Committee Member Gladson asked if he had a timeline as to the completion of the document?
Mr. Ryan stated just to be clear he had been working on it since he had started working for the
City of Orange. He would hope his knowledge could be transferred and it would allow people to
know what the expectations were right up front. He wanted to have fold-out graphics and
develop a website that allowed input of a roof style that figured out what the building envelope
would be. There was a lot of good stuff out there and he was open to ideas. It should go pretty
quickly once they completed the framework of the document.
Committee Member Gladson made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:30 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
All Committee Members present.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
There was none.
CONSENT ITEMS:
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action
CONSENT ITEMS:
(1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Apri121, 2010
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 4 of 18
Committee Member Gladson made a motion to approve the minutes from the regular Design
Review .Meeting of April 21, 2010, with changes and corrections as noted during the
Administrative Session.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 5 of 18
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items: None
New Agenda Items:
(2) DRC No. 4436-09 -ORANGE SENIOR CENTER -SIGN PROGRAM
• A proposal for a new sign program for the City's Senior Center.
• 170 S. Olive Street, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryanna,cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Chair Cathcart stated he had a conflict on the item as he was on the Board of Directors for the
Orange Senior Center; he was recused from the item's presentation.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had a conflict on the item due to the location of the
proposed project; he was recused from the item's presentation.
Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Applicant, City of Orange/Community Services Director, Marie Knight, address on file, stated
the only clarification or addition that they had was the decision to go with the illuminated front
sign. The project was funded through CBG funds and they needed to ensure that they had
adequate funding for the illumination. The City used the facility in the evenings and having the
lighted sign was very helpful to the patrons in order to find the facility. The City had a new
Programs Director and the programs at the center were expanding and the illuminated sign would
help.
The applicant's sign consultant, Tom Riggle, address on file, presented a color and materials
board for the Committee's review.
Ms. Knight stated the remodel and painting had been completed and the sign was the finishing
touch.
Public Comment
None.
Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee for discussion.
Committee Member Woollett asked for an explanation on how the lighted sign worked?
Mr. Riggle stated the sign would have a halo effect.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 6 of 18
Committee Member Woollett stated the sign called for a halo, however, as he read it the lettering
was set off from a metal face and behind that there were LEDs and behind that there was a clear
Lexon back. The light would shine back to the wall and would halo the metal and not the letters.
He asked how would the sign be able to be read at night? It would be difficult to read the sign at
night because of the light coming around the metal letters and the contrast.
Mr. Riggle stated per the site assessment with the lighting on the outside of the building and the
light shining down they would be able to read the sign.
Committee Member Woollett stated the LED was not necessary and it would only make the sign
harder to read.
Mr. Riggle stated the halo effect would give it some ambiance.
Committee Member McCormack asked if the only lighted sign would be on the canopy. The
profile of the canopy looked like the piece of metal was cantilevering over the surface behind
and in effect if it could be a flush mounted sign. If it was a flat surface it would work. The halo
would only light the underside of the cantilever.
Ms. Knight stated it was a flat sign.
Mr. Riggle stated it was flat.
Committee Member McCormack stated on the non-illumination it had not shown the 1 '/z" offset
from the wall and that detail needed to be shown so it was all the same.
Mr. Ryan stated they should all be 1 '/2".
Committee Member McCormack discussed the dimension and the distance of the mountings
with the applicant. He stated what he would not want to see was the conduit and the J Box that
always got stuck flat on the back side of the thing; and for their situation it would be something
that would be seen upon exiting the building.
Committee Member Woollett stated that would not be visible as there was a soffit under there.
Ms. Knight stated the conduit would not be visible.
Committee Member McCormack stated the detail should be shown on the plans for the canopy;
he would not want the contractor to get any bright ideas to surface mount conduit.
Vice Chair Gladson stated Committee Member Woollett's point on the readability of the sign
struck a point with her as well. She understood there was a cost element involved and asked if
they had considered neon and was it way out of their budget? She understood the value in
having it be really legible and easy to read; she would not want to impose a financial hardship on
the design. She liked halo and the illumination; however, there was generally front illumination
to have the sign be readable.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 7 of 18
Mr. Riggle stated LED was much more cost-effective and energy efficient.
Vice Chair Gladson stated the actual lettering of Orange Senior Center on the front face was just
one plane and there was not a channel effect with the lettering.
Mr. Riggle asked if the Committee would be agreeable to a halo and front-lit sign?
Vice Chair Gladson stated that went back to an illuminated sign.
Committee Member Woollett stated if he was correct all they needed to do was turn the light off;
they would not have the halo effect, and the sign would be readable. Whether the applicant
decided to go with it as presented, he had not cared, however, he felt it would not work as well.
For an example, he could see Committee Member McCormack's face across the room, but if
there was a bright light behind his head he could not be seen as clearly. He was not certain how
bright the LED would be and their responsibility of how easily the sign could be read was not
their concern. The value of using a punch through would be that the light would come out
behind the letters and illuminate the letters, but it would cost more.
Mr. Riggle stated they were willing to work with the City.
Committee Member McCormack asked if they could have a Lexon back, to have the entire LED
area be Lexon. It would have a halo and illumination.
Mr. Ryan stated that would be against the standard for illuminated signs.
Ms. Knight stated that was the challenge, to stay within the rules.
Vice Chair Gladson stated neon was the exception for illumination.
The Committee Members discussed different ideas and referred to the drawings.
The applicant's sign consultant, Tom Pitts, address on file, suggested they route out the word
"Orange Senior Center" from the aluminum material and it would not cost any more money as it
would use the same amount of LEDs. They could back that up and there would be a halo; it
would look awesome.
Committee Member McCormack asked if it would be a continuous route?
Mr. Pitts stated each letter would be routed and appear as it had in the drawings. The route
would be the thickness of the aluminum, whatever the letter size was.
Committee Member McCormack asked if that would be done with the words "Senior Center" as
well?
Mr. Pitts stated yes.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
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Mr. Riggle stated everything would be done to work with the City and ensure the sign was
readable.
Vice Chair Gladson stated she supported the direction the project was going in and they had to
balance the guidelines.
Mr. Riggle reviewed the color samples with the Committee Members.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve DRC No. 4436-09, Orange Senior
Center, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following condition:
1. The metal letters shall be routed out.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
RECUSED: Bill Cathcart, Craig Wheeler
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 9 of 18
(3) DRC No. 4452-09 - HENRY' S GRILL -PATIO COVER REVISION
• A revised proposal for a new patio cover on the outdoor patio area at the rear of the
building. Proposal also includes a sight study as to visibility of roof-top equipment
• 149 & 151 N. Glassell Street, Plaza Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan(a~,cityoforange.org
• Prior DRC Recommendation to Planning Commission on January 6, 2010
• Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had a conflict on the item due to the location of the
proposed project; he was recused from the item's presentation.
Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Applicant, Jack Selman, address on file, stated previously they had known that there was a
stained glass panel on the right hand side, but they had not known about the left side and they
had agreed to attempt to match it if it was not there. The glass was different than what had
existed next door on the Italian restaurant. They took some wood off in the inside and
discovered that there was glass there and it was in pretty good shape. It had been painted over
and there were purple pieces of glass with clear glass around the edge and they would attempt to
remove the paint; they would do the best they could to clean it up. Structurally it was definitely
not bad. The other issue they had was at the Planning Commission (PC) presentation one of the
Commissioners had brought up the visibility of the mechanical equipment. He felt it was not
visible. Mr. Selman stated he went back to obtain some photos. One of the Commissioners had
stated that placing a screen would be worse, and another Commissioner stated that not much of
the equipment had been visible, however, per the code any visibility of equipment had to be
screened and there was nothing in the code that mentioned landscape screening. He presented
photos from various angles. He stated that one of the photos was taken the day after the PC
presentation where the roof equipment was screened by the trees and there were three months of
the year where the trees were bare, however, the tree limbs still provided screening. He
presented another view of the building and stated the equipment could not be deciphered in his
opinion. He had also completed a site line study which was 100% accurate; technically there
was just a small piece approximately 4"-6" that was visible. He would be returning to the PC
regarding the screen issue and the trellis that he would present. He wanted to present it to the
DRC and obtain their opinion on the matter. If he placed a screen up it would be $5,000.00 and
he had not wanted to spend the money. It would also puncture the roof in several locations and it
would need to come up higher than the equipment. Instead of seeing a nice little box, a larger
piece would be visible, and he had not understood what the point of that would be. He could
paint it and that would be fine.
Mr. Selman stated, regarding the trellis, the material on the ground and the railing would remain
the same. Originally his tenant had wanted to use patio umbrellas, which he had thought was
fine. He now wanted a full wood trellis. He presented a wood trellis which he was proposing
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 10 of 18
that would be in a traditional stacked manner with main beams running in both directions. There
would be a base on the columns and a detail at the top. It would be stained wood.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Cathcart opened the item to the Committee for discussion.
Committee Member Woollett stated he thought it was fine.
Committee Member McCormack stated since the trees would be doing the heavy lifting, if they
could just ensure that they showed the trees on the plan as they would be the screen.
Mr. Selman stated from the sidewalk the equipment was not visible unless someone was really
looking and there was just a piece visible.
Committee Member McCormack stated he felt if the trees were not there the applicant would
need to provide screening; however, since they were mature trees then that screened the
equipment.
Mr. Selman asked if that was due to the code?
Committee Member Gladson stated because it would be more visible.
Mr. Selman stated but there would only be about a foot of screen that would be visible.
Committee Member McCormack asked if they could put something up on the edge?
Mr. Selman replied he would have to build it higher and the screen would be visible all the way
across.
Committee Member McCormack stated it would not accomplish much.
Mr. Selman stated when the trees were bare of foliage there were still a bunch of branches going
through there.
Committee Member McCormack stated he liked the trellis and asked about his plans for
lighting? He didn't want the conduit to be visible.
Mr. Selman stated he wanted to have lights mounted to each side and route out the conduit
location. He was not sure if independent lighting would work.
Committee Member McCormack stated the lighting could be compatible with any inside
lighting.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 11 of 18
Mr. Selman stated there was the whole issue with vandalism in downtown, and the entire back of
the building needed lighting. They had graffiti being scratched into all of their windows. Even
the building in the parking lot was scratched. In addition to any decorative lighting he would be
figuring in some lighting for the back of the building.
Committee Member Gladson stated she thought the trellis was fine and Mr. Selman's
suggestions were good. Adding a screen would create a worse situation in her view, just to add
something to hide 6" and she felt the suggestion of painting it out was a good idea and was worth
adding as a condition of approval. When the A/C units were selected he could choose something
lower.
Mr. Selman stated any new equipment would be mounted further back. There was one existing
unit that was barely visible.
Committee Member Gladson stated she could understand the PC's concerns and they had given
their input in that placing a screen there would not be beneficial. She liked the concept of the
trellis and she was excited to read in the Staff Report that the transoms had been uncovered and it
was so cool that it was coming out.
Mr. Ryan commented that in uncovering original features on the building and bringing them
back could place the building as a contributing structure to the Plaza; and the Committee could
choose to add that to a motion. Working around the seismic work that existed, the applicant
would still be bringing the contributing elements of the building back and it could be deemed as
a contributing building.
Committee Member Gladson stated if she was hearing it correctly they could suggest that action.
Mr. Selman asked what that process would be?
Mr. Ryan stated the survey information would be changed to reflect the new discovery since the
building had been last classified.
Mr. Selman asked who would do that?
Mr. Ryan replied that the City and he personally would do that. It was an opportunity to add the
building as a contributing building to the Historic District; based on the recommendations of
what had been found it could be done. Based on the new information they could consider that.
Committee Member Gladson stated they had real life examples to show to other building owners.
They had previous applicants who had re-created the same elements that now they had found to
be original elements and could encourage other building owners in their projects.
Mr. Ryan stated on the retail clothing shop on West Chapman, the Torn Building, there were two
shops on each side, and prismatic transom glass had been discovered and in removing some
plaster they discovered two huge historic signs. The signs were damaged due to the plaster
application, but they were visible and wonderful. Mr. Ryan stated he had given that contractor
information on preservation of those signs.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 12 of 18
Committee Member Gladson stated what was interesting about that was she was the little minion
who watched the design collaborative work 15 years ago and in their discussions talked about the
Plaza and what still might exist, and it was a blessing that they were actually discovering some of
those historic elements. They suspected that they were there and now they were discovering
some of those things.
Mr. Selman stated he had found the Hoff's Battery sign in the front of one of his properties and
they had restored it. It was now in the building.
Committee Member McCormack asked if the trellis stain would be clear?
Mr. Selman stated it would be a stain that gave the wood protection and the wood had not needed
to be pressurized; it would not be Redwood, he thought he would use Douglas fir. He wanted the
wood stained so it would not look brand new; he wanted it a bit darker.
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning
Commission of DRC No. 4452-09, Henry's Grill-Patio Cover Revision, subject to the conditions
contained in the Staff Report and with the additional conditions:
1. There shall be no exposed conduit on the trellis lighting.
2. Show the three trees on the plans and call out that they shall be existing trees to remain.
~~ 3. Stain to be clear stain on the Douglas fir.
4. To reclassify the building as a contributing historic structure due to the discovery of the
historic transom windows and restoration of same.
Committee Member Woollett stated he had understood that the applicant wanted to darken the
wood.
Mr. Selman stated he wanted to darken the wood and he was not certain it would be an actual
clear stain. The stain would have a tint; it would be an Olympic stain and technically it would
not be clear.
Committee Member McCormack amended his motion that the stain would be semi-transparent in
order for the wood color to be enhanced.
Mr. Selman stated in adding the building as a historic structure he wanted to ensure that the
designation would not be something that would holdup his project.
Mr. Ryan stated it was fairly simple and was just a classification of the property; and if Mr.
Selman followed through with the restoration on the transoms and store front, based on the
discovery and photo documentation they would move the building into a contributing status and
there was nothing further the applicant needed to do.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 13 of 18
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
RECUSED: Craig Wheeler
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 14 of 18
(4) DRC No. 4485-10 - US BANK -SIGN PROGRAM
• A proposal to install a new sign program for a change in bank ownership.
• 216 E. Chapman Avenue, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan(a~, it ofd orange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Applicant, Tim Pitts, address on file, stated he was in agreement with Staff and there were a few
points he wanted to make. The existing sign was brushed and if they went with a matte finish the
paint filled the brushing. The aluminum was brushed and it was visible in the grain, however,
once it was painted it defeated the purpose. They would paint it a flat finish and they were on
agreement with that. On the letter height, the higher he went the longer the sign became and he
had not wanted to go beyond the background panel. The bank's logo was a trademark and he
had not wanted to go much larger; if he had to go larger it would extend too much. He was fine
with the other recommendations. In pegging off the letters he would peg off the word bank and
he was not certain if the red logo should be pegged or just the US and have the red area remain
flat, or peg the red and have the US remain flat. He wanted the DRC's input on that.
Mr. Ryan stated that since the logo portion of the sign met the minimum height standard and that
controlled the remainder of the sign, he thought it would be logical to have those heights.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Cathcart opened the item to the Committee for discussion.
Committee Member McCormack asked on item no. 3 if they wanted that to be bigger?
Mr. Ryan stated the previous bank sign was longer, the same height but was a longer bank name.
He was reviewing the relationship of the overall sign and how it would fit the standards, and he
could go either way on it. The portion of the sign with the logo was larger than the minimum
standard and there was a relationship between US Bank and the rest of the sign and it met the
intent of the standards. Having the individual metal letters was important and it was just a matter
of how much depth they wanted to see.
Committee Member McCormack suggested having the red emblem raised. He asked how the
registered symbol was applied?
Mr. Pitts stated it was vinyl. It was a small piece of vinyl applied to the sign.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 15 of 18
Committee Member Wheeler asked what would be done with the awnings?
Mr. Pitts stated they would be re-skinned, but that was not part of his project.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he was a bit concerned about the thickness of the sign. In
the historic district a sign would either be painted or the letters would be fairly thick and he was
nervous that the letters were fairly thin. It could be fine as paint and the Committee had
considered that applied vinyl lettering was the equivalent of paint. He felt having the letters
stand-off was not appropriate and if they had stood-off the letters should be fairly thick. He
suggested that they just use vinyl lettering and it would be keeping more within the signs of the
historic district.
Mr. Pitts stated the truth was that the sign had already been sent to him and there were vinyl
letters on it.
Committee Member Gladson stated it was not their problem.
Mr. Pitts stated he agreed with staff and shame on the sign maker for not listening to him.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he could not think of another sign in Old Towne that had
thin stand-off letters.
Mr. Pitts stated the original letters were. The letters would peg-off from the background.
Mr. Ryan stated the letters needed to be a sufficient depth from the background and that would
be whatever was determined by the DRC.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it was not only the depth but the thickness of the letters that
concerned him.
Chair Cathcart asked for a suggestion on the thickness?
Committee Member Wheeler stated 3/4" would be equivalent to a 1 x plank.
Committee Member Woollett stated they could have the red panel offset with white letters. They
would get the offset effect and the logo would stand out.
Chair Cathcart stated the only stand-off area would be red and he liked that suggestion.
Committee Member Wheeler restated what Committee Member Woollett had suggested; that the
red area be raised and it could be something substantial and that could have vinyl lettering that
would have the appearance of paint and the background, the word "bank" could be directly on
the plane with vinyl letters.
Chair Cathcart stated he liked that idea. The sign was small and attempting to have all raised
lettering would be too much and raising the shield would be appropriate.
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 16 of 18
Committee Member Gladson stated she was having a hard time with the word vinyl.
Committee Member Wheeler reminded her that the DRC rationalization was in using vinyl paint
it would be vinyl on the surface, and what was the difference?
Committee Member Gladson stated with another sign they had looked at there was acrylic and
the samples the applicant was presenting on the current project were troubling to her as some of
them looked plastic and she wanted the letters to appear as metal lettering; she wanted to get
comfortable with that and she was just a minority.
Chair Cathcart stated a painted sign was appropriate.
Committee Member Wheeler stated as long as the vinyl applique was very thin.
Committee Member Woollett stated the vinyl could be a matte finish.
The Committee Members discussed the different materials.
Mr. Ryan stated what they had discussed was whether the proposed materials used had the
appearance of metal or wood and how had the surface reflected light. Another point was the red
shield portion of the sign would have depth and the appearance was the key.
Chair Cathcart stated the surface would be a matte finish.
Committee Member Woollett stated it would be a matte finish and was consistent with what they
had approved previously. They could add some thickness to the red shield.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested 3/a" thickness. They could use metal for that piece, either
solid aluminum or they could fabricate a box.
Mr. Pitts stated no pegs and 3/a" thick that would work fine.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on the lighting they would be relocating some of the lights
and in the rear they could eliminate one of the lights and center the sign.
Mr. Pitts stated on the back there was an awning that the sign was centered over, and if they
centered it over the lights it would be offset. The awning could be shifted and centered over the
lights.
Committee Member Wheeler stated his feeling was that they could do it either way as long as it
was all centered.
Committee Member McCormack asked how thick the blue panel on the sign would be?
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Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 17 of 18
Mr. Pitts stated that had not yet been determined. It would be mounted directly to the wall and
be a matte finish; the letters would be a matte finish, flush-mounted vinyl. The red shield would
be 3/4" fabricated with flush matte lettering and the US would be flush-mounted vinyl.
Committee Member McCormack stated it would appear as a thick piece of plywood. He asked
how would they deal with taking the old sign off and covering that profile?
Mr. Pitts stated it was already off and the wall was painted.
Committee Member Wheeler stated the dimensions of the awnings were off and they would want
to correct that.
Mr. Pitts stated from grade they were 8' x 8'.
Committee Member Wheeler stated the awning elevation had not agreed with each other on the
plans.
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC No. 4485-10, US Bank-Sign
Program, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following
conditions:
1. Removal of Condition No. 2 and Condition No. 3.
2. Retain Condition No. 4.
3. The five-sided red emblem be an aluminum box or plate at a minimum of 3/a" and
maximum 1" thick.
4. All sign material shall be a matte finish.
5. Remove one light on the rear of the building.
6. Lights and awnings be repositioned to align correctly or be centered.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2010
Page 18 of 18
ADJOURNMENT:
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled Design
Review Meeting on Wednesday, June 2, 2010. The meeting adjourned @6:52 p.m.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.