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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-13-2015 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: May 13, 2015 I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call Present - Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, M. Lebeau, A. Feliz Absent - Commissioners: C. Vaughan Present — Staff: J. Scott, M. Llanes, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt'. B. Marcotte, P. Then C. Introduction of Jacki Scott, the new City Traffic Engineer who comes to us from the City of Irvine. She briefly discussed her career to date that she has been working exclusively in Orange County. D. Approval of Minutes March 11, 2015 - Approved as published by the Recording Secretary. MOTION: Glasgow SECOND: Beil AYES: Beil, Glasgow NOES: None ABSTAIN: Lebeau, Feliz II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS III. CONSENT CALENDAR None this month. e Cityof A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and/or purchase. ran g e Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 - 5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. ow Public Works Department Et7 May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes] � Printed On Recycled Paper Pa 12 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request for the installation of "All -Way" STOP control at the intersection of Larkstone Dr. and Laurinda Ln. Deborah Mongan 984 N. Ridgeline Rd. Orange CA 92869 Commissioner Glasgow - I noticed you did a study for crossing guard on one day. Did you just pick one day and use it as an average or did you go out there more than the one time in the study? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - We had 2 days on the original traffic study when we are out there we counted everything, including the ped crossings, then when the issue was continued we did follow -up with another ped count, and at neither time did the intersection meet the criteria for installation of a crossing guard. It is our policy not to install crosswalks unless we have some form of positive traffic control, i.e., a traffic signal in this case a STOP sign. Commissioner Lebeau - Can we turn to the first page of the criteria for the placement of an adult crossing guard, going to section two, I'm trying to reconcile what it says here with the warrant. "The pedestrian count must be at least 20 elementary school age children crossing the street on the way to or from school but not a combination of both. Does that mean that "one way or another" would meet that warrant? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - It's a minimum of 40 students but not a combination. You cannot have 25 kids crossing in the morning and then only 15 or so in the afternoon. It has to be at least 20 in the morning and 20 in the afternoon. Commissioner Lebeau - I'm still trying to go through the standard, here it says on the way to or from school. It doesn't seem like the standard includes both directions, it sounds like it's one direction or the other. If it was both directions on the way to school and the way from school you would think the standard would list it that way, this sounds like it is one or the other. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - In that hour, in the morning for example, I suppose you could have children walking across the street in a different direction, however, if they are crossing the street and particularly on the leg that has no protection and they are counted during that time and if that number comes up to 20 or more, then that's an indication perhaps that a crossing guard is needed at this location; the same is in the afternoon. We don't care what direction they are going as long as they are crossing the intersection. 3 Cityof A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department I� 077 May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes ;� Printed On Recycled Paper Pa {L- e 13 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 Commissioner Lebeau - I think you are misunderstanding the question. If the answer is that it requires both directions you would think it would say, "20 elementary age school children per hour crossing the street on the way to and from school ", in which case it would be 20 students in the morning and 20 students in the afternoon. The way the standard is worded here it makes it sound like that as long as you have 20 in one of the 2 directions then you have met the standard when you use the word 'or'. If the standard is "and" I get it, and it's not met here, but if the standard is "or" you could argue that it was met here when you have 21 in the afternoon. Chairman Beil - I think this actually meets the standard reading the "or ". Now if the issue is that the wording doesn't fit the way the program criteria is set up I think maybe Public Works needs to change the wording on that sentence. lacki Scott, City Traffic Engineer - When reviewing this item last week I actually asked the same exact question. It seemed like it has been applied the way Dave is explaining it to us, where it was both the A.M. and P.M. had to meet the minimum 20, that's the way the program has been applied in the past and that was the intent of the program. We can certainly change the language on the form and make it clearer for everybody. Commissioner Lebeau - As the standard is written now having 20 in the afternoon would meet the standard, because it's disjunctive. In this case if the standard is meant to be interpreted as both the AM and the PM transit times then by all means the answer is no but the way it is written here I think the answer should have been yes and the standard needs to be revised, I get that. Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Erin Mongan, 984 N. Ridgeline Rd. - I am a 6 grader at LaVeta Elementary School but I think the corner is very unsafe because it's really hard to cross the street when it's busy, especially when we're coming out of school because all of the parents are there at the same time, and I've almost been run over. When the cars are parked too close to the curb I can't see around the bumper, and there have been cars going through there too fast and they don't stop at the STOP sign I have almost been run -over that way. I think the STOP signs and the red curbs would be really helpful to keep people safer. Deborah Mongan, 984 N. Ridgeline Rd. - I started all this. I appreciate Dave going out and taking another look at this intersection again. I'm certainly no traffic engineer but I've had 3 years to sit at this intersection. I don't know the traffic laws but I do know sitting there and watching it for 3 years, I'm highly observant and over - educated and I've got nothing to do but sit in my car and watch cars go by until she gets out with her backpack. I have seen the problems. I really appreciate even considering a 4 -Way STOP. I understand your criteria. I did read the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices and I'm still bothered by the criteria the cookie - cutter must fit in these and my concern before was that there had to be some subjective way to evaluate an intersection like this so it doesn't meet the letter for the three g Cityof A digital recording of this City Tragic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works DepartmentI! 277 May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes �� Printed On Recycled Paper Pa4;e 14 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 considerations and I did a little research and I found another school in Temecula that had the same issue because there was intersection like this that didn't meet the traffic volume and visual issues but because it was a changing neighborhood with a school in it they were able to go ahead and put in a 4 -Way STOP. Their facts are a little different it was a building in a new neighborhood not an old one like this one. If it's not ready for a 4 -Way STOP at least the red curb will help, it's better than nothing. I still think a 4 -Way STOP would solve a lot of the problems that I see there. I understand your concerns my issue is the abstract statistics of it all. I don't believe a 4 -Way STOP will necessarily make this intersection more unsafe. But I do understand that you can look at it with statistics and on the abstract and the grander scheme and those are the criteria that you apply. I would still love to see a 4- Way STOP here, I think it would solve all the problems that we have experienced over the last couple of years. I think a red curb is a great start and it will help alleviate the issues we do see. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Commissioner Lebeau - Going back to the day you did your traffic counts for the crossing guard and cross - referencing that with Ms. Mongan's letter of 12- 18 -14. It seemed like the first day back from the winter break was Monday the 12th and these traffic counts were accumulated on Tuesday, January 13th, which would have been the second day back to school. It seems like that may not have been the best day to do a traffic count in that areal especially if parents have kept their children over the length of the winter break. I'm in agreement with Mrs. Mongan that the intersection needs help, I'm wondering if further consideration of the warrants for a crossing guard would be appropriate. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - The numbers are low, we did check and verified school would be back in session. We do three (3) counts. In a case like this where we have an intersection adjacent to or in proximity to a school, because a school's peak is not necessarily the traffic peak. As far as a STOP study goes we will do an A.M. peak hour which is generally between 7:30 -8:30 A.M. and we will do a study during the afternoon release time which is generally between 2:00 - 3:00 pm and then count again in the P.M. peak hour which is between 4:30 -5:30 P.M. Minimum entering volume at an intersection is 250 vehicles for both peak hours. In this case neither of those 3 count times were even close, in fact in the evening when people are coming home from work the intersection was well below the 250 vehicle threshold. Counting there a week later would not have made the difference of almost 100 vehicles. So we do these traffic counts during the worst case scenario which is when school is in session. In this instance we found it wasn't close to meeting our criteria and furthermore, I believe the crossing guard warrant is 350 vehicles entering the subject intersection during the time the kids are going to and from school as well; again the intersection did not meet the criteria for consideration of an All -Way STOP or a crossing guard. g City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this re ard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes 6 Printed On Recycled Paper Page 15 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 Chairman Beil - Does that answer it for you Michael? Commissioner Lebeau — Not entirely. Chairman Beil — I agree with Dave as far as the criteria for at least 300 vehicles per hour and it's nowhere near that. Commissioner Lebeau — I understand. Thank you. Chairman Beil — I don't know if that would have made a difference on the student crossing counts. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Commissioner Glasgow — It would be great to put in STOP signs where we can but this is for 1 1 /2 hr. in the morning and 1 1 /2 hr. in the afternoon there are 21 other hours that people are going to be driving up and down that street and it's more burdensome to them on a street that really doesn't warrant a STOP sign. I think the red curb will help it will alleviate some problems on that corner, and maybe even have an officer out at the corner every once in a while in the morning and afternoon to police that. Commissioner Feliz - I just wanted to say that I was able to go out during the am and pm peak times and did some pedestrian counts of my own just to see because I'm new to all this. The pedestrian counts I observed were a lot lower in the afternoon than what David saw the day he was out. I agree that we should revisit the warrant issue and the criteria needs to be revised and the wording as well. ACTION: 1. Denied the requested All -Way STOP. 2. Revise language on the standard so it clear to everyone. 3. Approved the installation of 20 ft. of red curb on the north side of Larkstone Dr. at Laurinda Ln. MOTION: E. Glasgow SECOND: J. Beil AYES: Unanimous NOES: None ABSTAIN: None �3 Cityof A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Departmen Et7 May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes �� Printed On Recycled Paper Page 16 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 2. Request for the installation of additional red curb markings at the intersection of Glassell St. and Culver Ave. and to modify the pedestrian flasher at the intersection. David Sarni, M.D. 392 S. Glassell St. Orange CA 92866 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Beil - I think you are right on about the flasher idea and pursuing that it's not only that the regular drivers ignore them but the people who don't drive down Glassell St. that often actually stop at these intersections because they see the flashers and cause safety and traffic problems which confuses the cross - traffic at the STOP signs of Palmyra and Culver, so it's an interesting issue. You guys are right on about that. Commissioner Feliz - Do we know what the length of the red curb is on the northwest side of Culver? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - It's about 60 ft. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Jeff Frankel, 384 S. Orange St . - We met with Dave Allenbach and we came to the conclusion that all 4 corners should be required to have red curb. I personally have walked across this crosswalk many times. You can't be seen because there is a car parked, right now on the northeast corner is a green curb so potentially a car could be parked there and I think that goes back to when the use of that building was a market, it's no longer that use so there won't be people pulling up briefly and running in and out. The other corners have red curb but in our discussion they aren't long enough, they don't extend far enough for the speed limit now that it's been changed on Glassell St. The flasher modification we thought was a good idea, and it's completely up to the Traffic Commission and the City. If we could get those red curbs in and give the motorists additional visibility at that corner would be great because it's almost impossible to cross that street you have to jump out in front of a car to have them stop and I think having the flashers on all the time, people get used to that and when they are activated I think that would be a plus. Commissioner Feliz - I see the need for the red curb they are asking for another 20 ft. but I travel north on Glassell every morning at 5:30 a.m. and I see that whole roadway is completely full every morning. I would want to see if there is a possibility if we are going to remove one parking space to see if we could get at least one back on Culver, that area over there is pretty impacted. There is 60 ft. of red curb between the corner and the driveway. Chairman Beil - That was existing red curb on the north side of Culver west of Glassell, is that what you are referring to? Commissioner Feliz - Yes. ` City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department I� P77 May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes �� Printed On Recycled Paper Page 17 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 Chairman Beil - I don't have the history in front of us of looking at the reasoning that request was approved and installed. Dave might be able to talk about sight distance to the driveway with cars turning right at the corner. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - I can't tell you exactly when that request was approved as it was such a long time ago. For those very reasons at the time parking demand may have changed in the area. It's hard to say but at the time this was approved there was a high demand for parking on Culver west of Glassell, and we initially had about 20 ft. of red curb at the intersection and then people were parking up to the driveway limiting sight distance for patients coming out of the parking lot in the back of the medical building. Chairman Beil reopened the public hearing for further discussion. Dave Sami, M.D. - 392 S. Glassell St . - There is a Children's Hospital Clinic on the first floor and I run a division of the Veteran's Hospital. We get a lot of handicap vans and kids coming in with wheelchairs. Today I had 40 patients so there is a lot of traffic going through there and I think the red curb is really important for safety and sight distance. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Chairman Beil - We have a motion, and a second, and I think you were trying to amend that motion. Commissioner Lebeau - Based on Dr. Sami s testimony just now I'm not inclined to amend the motion. I think that if there is a sight distance issue at that driveway that it's appropriate to leave the red curb at Culver. We don't have the rationale that the Traffic Commission considered when they approved that red curb so I not inclined at this time to amend my motion. ACTION: Approved the installation of 20 ft. of red curb on the northwest corner of Glassell St. and Culver Ave. MOTION: Lebeau SECOND: E. Glasgow AYES: Unanimous NOES: None ABSTAIN: None Cityof��rr A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. L an g e Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department !f En7 May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes �� Printed On Recycled Paper Pa ie 18 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 3. Request for the installation of a loading zone in front of Fletcher Elementary School located at 515 W. Fletcher Ave. Rebecca Nelson, Principal Fletcher Elementary School 515 W. Fletcher Ave. Orange CA 92865 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Beil - Adam and I have the exact same question so I went ahead and looked up the MUTCD on what can be done in red zones, and it looks like you have covered it all. As long as it is marked or signed as a 'BUS' loading zone. One other questions I have, the existing entry and exit kind of drop -off area by the district in front of Fletcher has the sidewalk and curbed area with that 94 ft. of white curb area. The only thing I was curious about there is if we have specifically set a time limit on that since it's loading and unloading only and yet I see vehicles parked in that white zone. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - I asked the Principal about that, it was our concern as well, and she informed us she had been working with the Police Dept. and had been able to get the area cleared out so there was not any long -term parking, but again it is a loading zone so if you are there for 5 minutes while you are picking up or dropping off you can do that there's nothing and they seemed to feel that the existing white zone was working for them. If it is I think we prefer to take a minimal approach to this and leave the white curb as it is, if there is an issue with vehicles continually parking there, if they would like to make another request at a later date and maybe have that area painted red as well, we could do that. Commissioner Beil - I don't think it needs to be painted red. I'm curious how our police officers would enforce during school arrival or drop -off are in the morning and someone parks there, during the middle of the day they are letting people park there. There's no specific signing on the times for pick -up or drop -off. Whose discretion is it to say I can park there or not. That is the question that I'm thinking of. What we're doing by consideration of approving the red we are taking away more parking in the area, my personal feeling is that I'm supportive of creating the bus loading area by putting in more red. But I'm also looking at this additional parking area here in the white zone. It appears to be during the school day but somehow the vehicles are leaving during pick -up and drop -off, so I'm curious how that is being discretionally enforced. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - As far as enforcement goes you would have to talk to my associate in back of me. When we were there taking measurements there were buses waiting for the kids in the afternoon. We could sign it, but again because it is a loading zone the sign would be 5 MINUTE PARKING and it comes down as to how it's enforced at that point. g Cityof A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department If ED May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes �� Printed On Recycled Paper Paz_Ye 19 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 Chairman Beil - I'm not going to make a recommendation to do anything but it arouses my suspicious when I started looking at the various color of the curbs in the area and the signing. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Marty Adair, 2444 American Way - It's one thing to say or be concerned about how the people of a community park, but the big thing is these children are more than important than some commercial or industrial or private car being able to park there. I believe that needs to be red along there. Sometimes these signs get knocked over, pushed over, they are more expensive to put up; just make it all red. It's one thing for me to tell you what I think but I'm going to tell you what I've done, as you look at this you see where American Way street is, we gave that property to the City back in the late 1970's because we did not want that school to have this Southern Pacific road run right into the school. We said we'll give our property here and we got to name the street, 'American Way' and the other one that is perpendicular to it 'Freedom Ave.' we didn't think we were going to get killed for having to pay about a quarter of a million dollars for the paving of that street. I would not change the fact that we need to keep it safe for the schools. The teachers are the molders of America's future and the parents are that from the very beginning. We need to keep these kids safe. When you look at what's on American Way and Freedom Ave you will find that there is a great deal of parking from all the people over on Batavia St. now any of the property on American Way about the southwest property, about 5 acres, any of the tenants that sign a lease with us have to provide parking for their employees on their site not on the street. Likewise you will see that we have a parking lot on our property and we tell the parents over at the school can park in our lot for school events because we want it to be safe for them. There is a great deal of parking during the day on American Way but that is a separate issue to be dealt with at another time. I feel we need to keep this neighborhood safe. I want to commend the lady crossing guard that sits there on the south side of Fletcher. Rebeca Nelson, Principal at Fletcher Elementary School, 515 W. Fletcher Ave. - I want to thank Mr. Allenbach and Mrs. Adair for pretty much addressing all of our major concerns. We have grown by 20% and we've had about 5 accidents accessing our parking lot or right out in front of the school because of the congestion we have. We've reworked that pass - through driveway that used to be used by our busses and now parents can actually pull in and have a safer place to drop off the kids. With that we had to bump the busses to that loading zone so we worked with the police officers to keep that clear, we also put out cones to help facilitate that because people don't always observe the white zones are right before our pick -up and drop -off, we just put out cones for our busses. Even with that we still have a lot of congestion and there really isn't enough drop -off and pick -up space for our families to safely kid their children. Chairman Beil - Do you have a pretty high percentage of bus kids compared to a lot of the other elementary schools? Cityof A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department If 2!7 May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes 1 L# Printed On Recycled Paper Pai4e 1 10 Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission May 13, 2015 Rebeca Nelson, Principal — Currently we have 3 busses and our special education program is growing from this year to next year, we are adding another special education classroom at Fletcher which will bring another bus to us so we will have 4 busses. That space will be very welcomed. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. ACTION: Approved the staff recommendation to install the red zone for the bus drop -off. MOTION: J. Beil SECOND: A. Feliz AYES: Unanimous NOES: None End of Consideration Items V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS None this month. VI. ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission. The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled: 5:30 P.M. Wednesday - June 10, 2015 Respectfully submitted, Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division 12then@1cityoforange.91g CITY OF ORANGE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT 300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE ORANGE CA 92866 PH: (714) 744 -5536 FAX: (714) 744 -5573 Cityof A digital recording of this City Tragic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase. ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department If 2�7 May 2015 [N:/PublicWorks/Traffic /CTC /2015 Minutes �� Printed On Recycled Paper